Inscrit le: 02 Oct 2008
|Posté le: Ven 9 Jan - 17:38 (2009) Sujet du message: Rogue PVE FAQ
|This FAQ should cover all things that are going to change in patch 3.02 from a PVE point of view. I'm writing this so I can link it into every second thread, that's gonna save me alot of time in the long run. So expect many 1-line posts written by me in the future. If you have suggestions, spot any mistakes or just wanna say "nerf shamans!" then I'm glad about your feedback. The discussion with you guys as well as exchanging experiences and opinions is what kept me stepping by these forums in the past months, so heres my little gift
These things are by no means final, they just represent the current PTR build. Things are likely to get changed and I'll try to adapt and edit my posts if necessary. You're encouraged to point me to obvious mistakes, or outdated facts.
A short note for German speaking rogues:
*DE* Seit kurzem gibt es auch eine Übersetzung ins Deutsche. Danke an Gekautes <unleash> für die Arbeit!
Part I - Talents and gear
*) What are the best talent builds?
There are 2 viable PVE raid builds for level 70:
Combat/SS (5/51/5): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xZMgVb0bxqru0xRtx
The 4 filler points in endurance and imp sprint can be spent wherever you prefer.
Mutilate (51/5/5): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoi0oIuVo0xZhb
2 things are optional:
- Murder is quite useless in T6, SWP, naxx instances and can be skipped for QR, FF or any other filler you may wish to take.
- Master poisoner -> TtT if you get the group buff from a paladin or shaman.
Combat/SS is roughly 4% in front of mutilate with brutal weapons on non-murderable mobs, but this gonna change in favor of mutilate at level 80 in Naxx25 gear. Trispecc or deep Subtlety builds lack behind in terms of damage.
Levelling (aka solo-PVE) builds may differ from the mentioned raid builds and there isn't a "clearly best levelling spec". It's completely up to you what talents to choose, but remorseless (as pacing mechanism), riposte and unfair advantage can be considered as good levelling talents, while for example imp snd and blood spatter can be safely skipped in a levelling build.
Best level 80 builds are:
Combat/SS (7/51/13): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xbZMgVb0bxqru0xRtx0f0h
Mutilate (51/13/7): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoi0oIuVo0xV0hZxb
*) Tell me more about combat/SS!
Since picking up CQC only costs 0 DPS filler talent points, fist/sword weapon combos may even beat dual swords of similar quality. Please consult the spreadsheet for exact numbers. Sword/fist MH and 1.4 dagger OH are a viable (if not better) alternative at level 80 due to the lack of fast 1.4 speed swords.
Since WF gives a flat haste bonus now, you should put wound on MH and deadly poison on OH. You still want a slow MH and a fast OH, 1.4 speed ones like BoS and glaive are the top weapons. You can find IP vs. WP maths a bit further down this page.
Talent DPS per point breakdown for combat/SS:
Blood Spatter 20
Vile Poisons 27
Imp Poisons 16
Imp SS 77
DW Spec 50
Imp SnD -
Blade Flurry 52
Blade Twisting 30
Sword Spec 32
Weapon Expertise 28
Combat Potency 51
Surprise Attacks 61
Savage Combat 44
Prey on the Week 73
Killing Spree 86
Relentless Strikes 30
Serrated Blades 43
*) Gief mutilate info!
Mutilate and especially the assassination tree received massive changes. We got rid of the positional requirement, poisons are much stronger and make up to ~17% of our total damage and with FA we got an energy generating talent like CP that scales with crit and weapon speed.
The latter is really important for mutilate rogues. You were used to choose weapons regarding stats and weaponDPS first, but that's no longer the case.
Optimal would be 2 fast daggers, the additional FA and IP procs outweight the loss of mutilate dmg. Since 2x 1.4 daggers are a pain to get, what to do with 1 fast and 1 slow dagger? Then it's best to put the 1.8 speed weapon in OH (!) and the 1.5 in MH. Yes, that wasn't a typo
In a Mutilate build both hands are being used at equal frequency, until you account for Eviscerate, Envenom, and Rupture. These finishers all have a chance to proc poisons, and Eviscerate and Envenom can both proc Focused Attacks by virtue of being able to crit. Using the slower weapon in your off hand (assuming both weapons are equal DPS, therefore slower implies higher damage range) does cause a hit to your Mutilate damage. However, the 181 bonus damage to each hand actually accounts for a significant portion of your total Mutilate damage, such that the slight hit to weapon damage used in the Mutilate calculation is actually overwhelmed by poison damage and Focused Attacks procs. You want to use Instant Poison on your fast weapon instead of your slow one. So getting more proc chances for Instant Poison by putting that fast weapon in the MH is better than more proc chances for Deadly Poison. 2)
Talent DPS per point breakdown for mutilate:
Malice = CQC = MP 25
Blood Spatter 27
Puncturing Wounds 29
Vile Poisons 46
Imp Poisons 28
Seal Fate 10
Find Weakness 19
Focused Attacks 116
Turn the Tables 11
Cut to the Chase 114
Hunger for Blood 179
DW Spec 66
Imp SnD 1
Relentless Strikes 53
Serrated Blades 41
Ruthlessness *does* have a DPS value, however, not in the spreadsheet. With ruthlessness you'll be able to sometimes perform finisher (ruth proc) -> mutilate crit -> 4 CP envenom -> mutilate etc.., which is a DPS increase. I'm not sure how the sheet exactly models CttC cycles, fact is that ruthlessness is worth its 3 points, it's also included in the suggested build.
*) So, can you suggest daggers for mutilate?
I've put various daggers into the sheet to get a rough ranking for mutilate builds at level 70, as with the upcoming changes to the assassination tree it's hard to formulate a rule of thumb what's best to use. The rule we've been used to "low speed and high DPS for main hand, dps > stats > speed for offhand" will be a thing of the past in 3.02.
All we know is that Focused Attacks and Instant Poison favor fast weapons even in the main hand, but is it worth the tradeoff for lower mutilates? Is the 1.3 speed, 87 DPS dagger from hMgT our best choice now? You'll see
- Calc is Vulajin's Rogue BC 0.41
- Gear and buffs unchanged (full SWP gear)
- 51/5/5 spec, CttC 4+r/4+en cycle, snd glyph, IP main, DP off
Crux of the Apocalypse, 114 DPS, 1.8 speed, one-hand
Fang of Kalecgos, 108 DPS, 1.5 speed, one-hand
Shiv of Exsanguination, 108 DPS, 1.8 speed, one-hand
Shard of Azzinoth, 108 DPS, 1.9 speed, unique, one-hand
Vengeful Gladiator's Shanker, 103 DPS, 1.8 speed, main hand
Vengeful Gladiator's Shiv, 103 DPS, 1.4 speed, off hand
Blade of Serration, 103 DPS, 1.8 speed, one hand
Swift Blade of Uncertainty, 103 DPS, 1.5 speed, unique, off hand
Messenger of Fate, 100 DPS, 1.4 speed, one-hand
Tracker's Blade, 100 DPS, 1.5 speed, unique, one-hand
Merciless Gladiator's Shanker, 97 DPS, 1.8 speed, off hand
Merciless Gladiator's Shiv, 97 DPS, 1.4 speed, off hand
Edge of Oppression, 87 DPS, 1.3 speed, one-hand
Best main hands:
1) Fang of Kalecgos
2) Messenger of Fate
3) Tracker's Blade
4) Crux of the Apocalypse
5) Edge of Oppression
6) Shiv of Exsanguination
7) Vengeful Gladiator's Shanker
8) Blade of Serration
9) Shard of Azzinoth
10) Merciless Gladiator's Shanker
Best off hands:
1) Fang of Kalecgos
2) Crux of the Apocalypse
3) Shiv of Exsanguination
4) Vengeful Gladiator's Shiv
5) Tracker's Blade
6) Messenger of Fate
7) Swift Blade of Uncertainty
8) Merciless Gladiator's Shiv
9) Blade of Serration
10) Edge of Oppression
11) Shard of Azzinoth
Best combos sorted by drop location:
Badge/5mans/honor: Edge of Oppression / Swift Blade of Uncertainty, 3236 DPS
T6: Messenger of Fate / Tracker's Blade, 3277 DPS
Sunwell: Fang of Kalecgos / Fang of Kalecgos, 3346 DPS
As you can see, the difference between SWP and "casual" daggers is not as big as you may expect.
The TLDR version: Speed matters, DPS not so.
Best trinkets for combat/SS are (in this order): BNS > ATL > DST > SoC > MotB > TT > WSC
Note that ATL pulls ~30 DPS ahead of DST. Reason is that with full SWP gear and the new WF totem, giving another 20% haste instead of an extra attack, haste effects don't scale as much as other stats. WSC lost some ground because -armor raid (de)buffs aren't stacking anymore, only a major and a minor -armor effect, leading to more boss armor in total.
Trinket ranking for mutilate: BNS > ATL > SoC > DST > MotB > TT > WSC
For combat/SS: 5s/5r with ATL, 4s/5r for other trinket combinations. 3-finisher cycles like Xs/Yr/Ze are sustainable with SS and snd glyphs and full sunwell gear (alot of haste needed). If you're unsure, consult the spreadsheet, or test ingame in a raid setting (WF!).
For mutilate: 4+n/4+r CttC. Means once snd is running you refresh it by performing 4 or 5 CP envenoms while keeping rupture up. HfB every 30 secs, it's a huge DPS boost.
1) Keep HfB and SnD up 100%
2) maximize rupture uptime
3) envenom as much as possible without violating rules 1 and 2